Patty Jansen has an interesting post up. Let me quote:
I quite enjoyed Harry Potter and Twilight. Sure, when I look at them with my writerly eyes, I can see places where I thought things got a little wobbly, but I can’t think of a single book I’ve read where that wasn’t the case. The overall reading experience was a positive one. Which is why I totally don’t get why so many aspiring writers take delight in dissing these books as pieces of crap. The universal writerly crapometer seems to be set at a particularly sensitive setting for very successful novels.
I think a number of reasons contributes to this. First, it’s very difficult to be rejected month after month after month. You want to break in so much, but you just can’t. We all develop defense mechanisms to deal with constant rejection.
Some people brew conspiracy theories. Oh, the publishing world is an incestuous group of elitists who only let their friends and relatives in, and the ordinary Joe has no chance. These successful authors know somebody.
Some people tear down successful novels out of sense of backward hope. This was published and it’s pure crap. Surely, my stuff is so much better, when I break in, I will hit it big.
Some people want more. The mega-bestsellers are mega because they have a broad appeal. They might not necessary be superb on all fronts, but they do a number of things well. Most importantly, they’re able to connect to a wide audience by triggering some of the universal themes. I remember reading Harry Potter and having an acute sense of envy, not of the writer, but of the characters. You know how much I would’ve wanted to attend Hogwarts? To me, that’s where Rowling’s writing is magic.
But for some people, it’s not enough. They want more. They want to read a book that deals with gender issues as it relates to the magic society. Or they want a book that explores more of the magical theory. Or they want a book… You get the point. That’s a normal part of being a writer – most writers write the book they wish they could read but can’t find.
And some people are simply envious and bitter. I know a young writer who has to take time off every time one of their “friends” experiences a little bit of success, because it turns her into an emotional wreck.
A little envy is normal and natural. I have it too. If I were Jane Doe Megabestseller, I’d be writing this post from my villa in Greece, smiling at the Mediterranean. (That’s where I would live if money was no object. I just have to see Mediterranean or Black Sea and I instantly drop fifteen pounds. If I taste the salt in the water, I’m five years younger.) How can you not envy someone who is incredibly successful in your chosen profession? But I don’t spend any time agonizing over not being Jane Doe Megabestseller. If you call me on it, I’ll admit to some mild envy, but I have my own stories to tell, my own swamp lights to chase, and I’m happy doing it.
It’s hard not to become bitter, but you can’t let it overwhelm you. If you do, you risk never making it, because you lose your ability to see what successful novels do well. You lose your critical insight. So I advise taking that five minutes to unapologetically sneer at whatever mega-bestseller might push your buttons and then opening it to find out what it does well.
I think that often it also depends on the ‘ global mood’ – so to say – if a book is going to be succesful or not. Harry Potter just totally hit the nerve of the people at the right time. It’s hard to top something like that.
When I first read Harry Potter I found myself enchanted with the world-building and the characters, the whole idea behind it all was different and the character interaction is very well done. Of course there are some clichés. Of course the first two books are a little lacking in the description department, or at least that is my personal opinion. But does it really matter?
I read because I like the entertainment, I love it when I can lose myself in a story, when it pulls me inside, grabs me and doesn’t let me go and setting the book aside in the middle of the story is really annoying. I think if a story manages to get people to talk about it (like on the forum here), speculate about the interaction of the characters and what will come next…. Well, I guess then the author has done well.
I enjoyed Harry Potter, DESPITE the hype (hypes always make me kind of suspicious
)… Twilight however doesn’t do anything for me. I don’t know why, but the storyline itself just doesn’t grab me. I gave it a try, read the first book, but setting aside the book was far too easy and I just couldn’t relate to the characters at all.
That doesn’t mean the books are bad. That doesn’t mean the writing is bad. It’s just not the right story for ME. Obviously a lot of people however enjoyed the books and well they should. If we all were interested in exactly the same story told in exactly one certain way… well, how boring would that be?
to me a crappy book is when the manuscript obviously made it through to printing without a good spelling and grammar check. And unfortunately I read some of those. I mean, a few mistakes are normal, because we’re human and not perfect. But paying for a book that’s full of plotholes and grammar mistakes just doesn’t leave me with a good feeling.
And to me, that’s what reading is all about: I want to close the book and think tomyself: Wow, that really was awesome and totally worth the time.
CheeseBK quote
“And to me, that’s what reading is all about: I want to close the book and think tomyself: Wow, that really was awesome and totally worth the time.”
THAT is exactly how I feel. I can forgive a few mistakes if the story does that.
I must be totally in the dark. I did not know of that much criticism of Harry Potter. I love the books and I was totally engrossed with that world.
I also wished I was at Hogwarts after reading them .
I didn’t read the Twilight books. I don’t know if the story sucks or not. I read the beginning and simply didn’t like it. So I didn’t read the books.
I can’t understand the hype about them, but I don’t understand hypes in general. What could bring someone to stand in a crowd and scream at the top of her lung and then possibly faint?
I made it through most of ‘Halfway to the grave’ before I gave it back to the library. The writing style is really good, I liked the story, but wasn’t hooked. I didn’t get the feeling ‘Oh, I want to know what happens next!’ It didn’t matter to me if Cat got shot in the next chapter. I don’t hate the book. I even recommended it to one of my friends, who loved it.
Oh, I would love to get published. But that’s a daydream that’s securely stuffed in the never-going-to-happen area of my brain. Getting published would require a lot more work on my writing and, oh, a finished novel. And maybe a bit more talent than I have. No, I don’t want the be a writer. I want to be a scientist
Maybe it’s easier not to be jealous of the success of others when all you think is: “I would have never made it that far.”
If one of my friends would be going to be published, I probably would jump up and down before her, making puppy eyes and asking for an ARC. Unfortunately, most of my friends aren’t that into books. Never mention into writing.
So I have to depend on people I don’t know to satisfy my book addiction. If others loved Twilight, Harry Potter or the Night huntress series, I’m glad they found a book they enjoyed to read. I can understand they want to tell the world about their new love. But has it to be so… loud?
You know reading this made me think back on all the talented artistic people I know and how some of the most creative ones I know were more neurotic than others and some seemed totally unaware they had something special. Actors, writers, directors, quilters, painters. The ones that were oblivious to their talents drove me nuts. It was like they could take it or leave it, but had more important things to do than some artsy thing like painting, writing, acting.
You also have quirky artists that don’t fit the norm that also achieve major success, (Johnny Depp for instance in the actor category). But going against popular choices in such a gamble.
When Ilona shared she never wanted to be a writer, but a scientist . .. that gave me pause and chill. Now I’m sure she could have led a wonderful life and enjoyed many aspects of her job as a scientist. But I cringe just thinking of my world without her books. Without Curran, Derek, Kate and the whole world she created that I get to visit in her stories. I love visiting her blog and reading her posts and then seeing what everyone has commented in return… it is comforting and makes me feel even more connected to her characters getting glimpses and anecdotes from her daily life and family. It’s wonderful.
It may just be a generalization, but it seems like people who have stories in their head and in the case of actors, other personalities living within just need a way to get it all out. Some artistic people find a happy normal way to get their craft going. It could take someone without a natural talent their whole life to achieve a fifth of the success someone who just seems to get it . . . that special something that allows you to grasp what to do, and when to do it.
I’m not saying it’s easy or that it’s luck. But truly some people more easily grasp what is beautiful, they have a natural flow and know how to express thoughts or actions in a way that appeals to a broader audience.
Some writers spend a long time banging their head and then one day, they get it. That magical voice just finally lets the storyteller write it down so others can get it too. It can take years of reading grammer books but it’s the story that wins out. The writer just need to make the story in their head flow so others can visualize it the way they do. Then we are allowed a brief glimpse at a world of characters living in that persons head. How cool is that?! And it’s awesome and inspiring and makes some us wish we could do something like that. And there’s the envy of it all.
I loved the Harry Potter books and I cannot read Twilight. I am not a writer, I am a reader (and a scientist). I start reading a book and if it sucks me in I will finish it. If it sucks me in and there are more books of this author or (even better) there is a series of books I will buy them and read as long I enjoy it. If a book does not suck me in, does not touch me, does not spark my interest I will not finish it and I probably will not buy another book of this author. Doesn’t matter to me if there is a hype about a book or not.
But, however you think about Harry Potter or Twilight, these books accomplished at least one, in my opinion extremely important, thing: They made children to read! (I think this last sentence is terrible English….how would you phrase it?)
I don’t know how it is in USA. But in my country for a very long time it looked like most children had lost any interest in reading. But with Harry Potter and Twilight they were waiting anxiously for the next book, they were standing in a queue to get it early and they were reading in the nights under their blankets to learn how the story evolves.
Whatever the Harry Potter and Twilights books are, high literature or crap or something in between – they gave for the first time millions of children ( and also a few adults) the experience of their own imagination – and this is worth a lot.
I have read both the HP and the Twilight series and for the most part enjoyed them both. I accepted these books for what they were and went along for the ride. I don’t think I was put off because of their, for want of a better world “commercialism” and like cheese said I believe the timing was right for them both. Sure I had my issues with them which I’m not going to go into but doesn’t everyone? It is a personal thing, I mean what I like about a book, movie, painting, poem(the list could go on) may be the next persons gripe.
I do remember watching the footage of children lining up for hours for HP and saying to my bff” How great that would be knowing YOUR work is encouraging these kids to read”.
As a reader its relatively simple for me.I like the book I’ll keep reading if I don’t, well I’ll stop.( I”m not at school anymore so I don’t HAVE to finish a book if I don’t want too!)
I clicked on the 2nd link Ilona provided and read that post with sadness. I would hope a true friend regardless of circumstances would celebrate your success and commiserate with your “failures”(both hopefully with a bottle of wine!) Or is that too naive of me? I hope not. One would think fellow struggling or otherwise, writers would be able to understand the sheer hard work it takes to get your work out there. I am not a writer but I have read a few authors blogs and I have nothing but admiration*shrug* but that’s just me.
Phew I think thats enough of my rambling!
“The universal writerly crapometer seems to be set at a particularly sensitive setting for very successful novels.”
Actually, my writerly crapometer is set that way for any novel, be they mega successful or not. I expect a good read. If the book doesn’t do it, it’s gone and it doesn’t matter who is the author. I read TWILIGHT, but it didn’t do it for me. Still, I did as Ilona suggested — I studied the book and tried to decipher the mystical “X” factors that made it a blazing success. Where I didn’t enjoy Ms. Meyer’s writing, I acknowledge that she has built an immense audience that craves more stories (bless her). I won’t diss her for her success. I certainly don’t need the negative karma.
Unfortunately, nothing sorts out your friends like money and fame. I’m watching this happen with a close friend of mine who is now mega successful. To me she’s still the cool lady I met eight years ago when we were just starting our careers, but that’s not how some perceive her now that her books are so popular. It’s been a real eyeopener for her. And for me, as well.
I read Twilight and HP. I usually start a series and finish it whether I like it or not.. because Im a curious cat. I cant stop reading even if Im not in love because I cant stand the idea of knowing something else happens and I dont know what it is. So that adds to the fact that I read A LOT of books a week.
I liked Twilight because it made me feel like a teenager again, made me giddy and funny all over. I loved the fact that when you are a teenager perfect love does not seem impossible. And I mean perfect love the type of you only look at each others eyes and never ever ague and you know you are for each other the second you see him… it just made me remember a simpler time when I thought I knew it all and I was willing to believe on anything and put my whole hart on it:)
I did like Harry Potter, is just not one of my favorites. The writing stile just wasn’t for me.
I believe must people look down on Twilight and Harry Potter because they are series for teenagers and older people like to pretend the are more “mature”. They think they are above reading stuff like that, when what really matters is whether you like the story or not. As readers we need to come in peace with our tastes. Just like my husband had to admit to himself not long ago that all macho men and all… he loves cheesy romance movies
I guess is a mixture of feeling above and beyond some titles and also that people gets bitter and jealous of other people success. I do not understand the kids that go there and scream and cry and faint over a fictional character… well I dont understand it even on an actor or singer… but well, they are teenagers and that passion comes with the age
My husband, BIL, and I – all of us big readers – once had a convo about why we read the books we do. My husband and his brother mostly read for the craft of the story being told. That is, they are more interested in the writer’s unique style than in the story itself. For them, especially my BIL, it doesn’t matter how much of a gimmick a certain book may be – so long as it’s told in a well-crafted way, or in a way they’ve never seen before, they will likely read it.
I am the opposite. I prefer a good tale, and I don’t much care how it’s told so long as it’s told well. I think this is why I am so drawn to the fantasy genre and all it’s baby sub-genres: fantasy tends to be damn good storytellin’.
I do love Harry Potter. I love the universal themes of friendship and courage and destiny. I hope that my son will read those books some day. In fact, this is going to sound super cheesy and trite, but I have been living in New York City for 13 1/2 years now and was reading the first HP during 9/11, and I have to admit: reading that book at that time helped me through it all.
And I did love the Twilight Saga. I picked up Twilight when I was only a few weeks post-partum, and they were an easy, escapist read for me at a time when I could only grab a few minutes here and there to read non-baby-related books. They made me feel like a teenager again, and I got a giddy rush from that. True, a lot of that may have been the sheer volume of post-birthing hormones flooding my system, but it was still a fun way for me to escape the realities of suddenly being home with a newborn. I do not consider the Twilight Saga to be the Greatest Books Known To Humankind, and I would never insist them on anyone, but I have a special place in my heart for them because, like Harry Potter, they were the exact right books for me at exactly the time I needed them most.
Yes, sometimes books are successful because they appeal to a least-common-denominator generality among the population, like Twilight. But sometimes books are successful because they really are that good, like Harry Potter. I make no apologies for the books I read, and, as an aspiring writer in the fantasy genre, I like to think that I am mature enough to appreciate others’ successes while I still struggle. Karma and all.