I really didn’t want to talk about this, but I keep getting comments and emails.
Let’s say I’m a clothes designer. I design a new line of jeans, Cute Jeans. But now I have a problem: how do I get my jeans into stores?
I’m a poor designer with no production facilities or industry contacts, so I sell the rights to produce my line to Big Label. Big Label can mass produce my jeans and has contracts in place with different store chains, like Target, Walmart, FakeMart and so on. It can pitch my design to those retailers.
Big Label prices the jeans at $12.99. Fake Mart gets the jeans and starts selling them for $7.99. Big Label asks why. Fake Mart tells it that really they make money on sneakers, and they will reimburse Big Label for the discount. In other words, they will artificially lower the price of the jeans and give Big Label $5 back. See, Fake Mart wants to have the monopoly on lowest prices and they have a line of sneakers to go with jeans and that’s where they make their money. They can afford to take a loss on the jeans.
Eventually other retailers catch on and complain. Not everyone can afford to give $5 back to Big Label and they’re getting complaints from customers, who think the jeans are now worth only $7.99.
Big Label states that it wants Cute Jeans to be sold at $12.99. Fake Mart pulls all the jeans off the shelves and starts selling Big Label’s other products at extremely deep discount, killing Big Label’s profit margin.
Irate customers complain to… designer. Who has no influence on this fight. Think about it. Would you complain to the designer that her jeans are not available in real life or would you go up to customer service at the Fake Mart and let them know you want the jeans back? And if they say no, would you drive a block over to Target and just buy the jeans there? Of course, you would. If the product isn’t available at one store, you’d go to the next one. You might bellyache about it to your family at dinner, but that’s about it.
A few facts:
1) Amazon is the retailer Fake Mart in the equation. When you guys purchased a Kindle, you purchased a device that anchored you to this particular retailer.
2) Amazon wanted a monopoly on the market, in the same way Apple for a while had a near monopoly on electronic song market. Amazon will do almost anything to keep this monopoly, including selling books at a loss to entice consumers.
3) Amazon can do basically anything with its Kindle content. Amazon can arbitrarily remove content from your devices and refund you the money and has done it before. They control the content. Not the authors. Not the publishers. Not the readers who “purchase” it. Amazon is the only entity that controls what it does with its content.
4) Amazon is trying to bully the publishers because it refuses to compete with Apple. It really can’t compete with Apple, to be honest. I-pad is a pretty, pretty thing. It’s bigger, it’s brighter, it does a multitude of things, and it’s selling like hot cakes. More, people are comfortable buying from Apple, because they are used to buying songs for their I-pod. Like it or not, I-Pad is the New Cool Thing.
Amazon makes a lot of money on selling Kindles, but really Kindle pales a bit in comparison. Amazon realizes this. It is now actively punishing Penguin by selling its paper book at extreme discount, so Penguin is taking a loss. I think they are convinced that the only way for Kindle to survive requires that Amazon must have the lowest prices ever.
That’s where the hold up is. If I bought Kindle, I would feel cheated right now. I would want to complain. But complaining to me or other authors is just not going to accomplish anything. We are losing sales because Amazon is not carrying our e-books. But we can’t make Amazon change its corporate policy. Sorry guys, we just don’t have this kind of clout.
But you do. You can email Amazon and demand to have the e-books. You are the consumers, you purchased their device in expectation of content being available to you, and they better provide that content. They are breaching their agreement with you. I’m not. And neither is my publisher, because the e-books are becoming available at other retailers.
I want you to have the ability to purchase our books on Kindle. I really, really, really do. And I’m really, really, really upset that Amazon is doing this. I just can’t actually do anything about it.
“You are greedy! Publishers are greedy! Publishers want to take advantage of consumers!”
We live in a capitalist society. A product has to make money or the company that produces it will go under. And the company has a right to set the price of its own product. The consumers have a right to buy it or not to buy it.
Publishers must make money. They make most of their money on mega bestsellers, the ones released in hardback and sold for about $25. (Most “normal” books actually are published at a loss or very slight profit.) As I understand it, under agency model these bestseller books in e-form will cost $14.99-12.99 at release time, with the price gradually dropping over time to $9.99. So if you don’t want to pay $12.99 for the e-book, wait a couple of months.
From what I’ve seen so far, mass market paperbacks are not affected. How do I know this? Because B&N is selling Magic Bleeds right now under agency model in e -form for $6.99. The mass market paperbacks are just collateral damage in this fight.
The agency model has a lot of advantages on the business end of it: for one, the six different statements for every format of e-book will now become one statement, which permits publishers to streamline the accounting. Is it a perfect solution to resolve the e-book situation? No. Of course not. But it’s a step in the right direction, away from format mess, away from artificial price fixing, and toward the same uniform price for most e-books.
Apple is a mercenary company, just like Amazon, and the publishers may well regret their decision to restructure, but some sort of restructuring must take place, because the future of books is likely to be digital.
What I would like to see, if I could wave a magic wand, is that if you purchase a dead tree book, you should get an e-book version bundled with it. Like Blue Ray and digital copies. I would like to see a service like I-tunes, which offers e-books safely and reasonably. I would like an e-book format that is universal. But I don’t have a magic wand.
I have had my Kindle since Christmas, and I love it. The whole 1984 thing got blown way out of proportion, and even Amazon admits they didn’t handle that well. In essence, they sold something that wasn’t theirs to sell, stolen property as it were. If I buy a stolen car, then yes, the cops will come and take it back from me.
It seems rather glaring to me that every publisher but Penguin has settled with Amazon. It just seems that they are asking for more than Amazon is willing to give. I hate that the biggest majority of the books I have wanted in the past few months have fallen into this mess. I refuse to buy paper books now. I love my Kindle, and I love my clean (well, not book cluttered!) house. It also seems rather glaring to me that all the books that are having these problems are ONLY showing up from retailers like B&N and other places that only sell DRM products- in essence, just another way to punish Kindle owners by now selling the books from ANY place we can get them, not just Amazon. The publishers aren’t just trying to punish Amazon, but ALL Kindle owners.
And yes, you can get books from other sources. You can buy books from fictionwise, smashwords, omnilit, pretty much anywhere that you can buy non-DRM books. You can even get books in PDF format and send it to Amazon to convert for you, and have it sent right to your Kindle!
I do get that it isn’t up to the author who sells the books and for how much, and I’m sorry you are the ones who get stuck hearing all the rants, but I guess it’s just because you are the “face” of the books, and thanks to the invention of blogs like this, much easier to contact and whine and complain to about problems like these.
Oh I totally understand the frustration. I wish they would hammer it out already.
Unfortunately, some of the emails we receive are rather combative. People seem to be under impression that we are withholding content from Amazon and that’s just not the case.
I’m so sorry you have to put up with this mess.
You want your Hurog fans and your IA board fans to have a little… chat… with those combative emailers? We’ve got nothing but time until May 25… LOL
People are frustrated and I understand that. But eventually my patience will snap and I will break the “polite at all costs” policy and then I will say something that I will later regret.
Well, then, you could just send them to me or Bea or one of the others. Then, you can remain your “nice at all costs self” while we takes care of bizniz. >D
In all seriousness, I am really sorry that some nimrods are taking it on you without even looking into the issue first.
hehe, kate! *waves*
At the risk of asking a really dumb question, when you fill up your e-reader’s memory what happens to the books stored in the reader, do/can you load them to your computer?
With the price of the readers and everything that is going on with Amazon I think I will stick to getting my books the ole fashion way. At the bookstore.
PS
I read today Google announced that in late June or early July they will start selling
e books. The also said they will have some out of print books.
Any book you buy from Amazon is always stored for your at Amazon, whether you remove it from your device or not. Books you buy from other sources you have to back up on your own, on your computer or maybe a flash drive, that’s what I use.
Once you delete non-Amazon purchased books from your Kindle, they are gone, unless you have it saved somewhere on your computer, and in that case, you can put it back on there at any time. And really, the Kindle has HUGE storage for books. Books don’t take up much space- I have around 400 books on my Kindle, and still have over a gig of space left, and it has 1.5 gigs of space total. So you can put roughly 1500 books on there without a worry. Of course, audio books and MP3s take up more space than plain old text.
I should add- some other ebook retailers back up your purchases on their servers like amazon does, but don’t take it for a fact, always double check before you buy, and definitely before you delete.
I am not thrilled with Google right now – they have been mis-appropriating books and posting them online in their entirety without the author’s permission. They try to use the excuse that the author’s didn’t “opt out” as validation for this theft but that is flimsy at best. It’s like telling someone that a thief didn’t rob you because you didn’t sign a request that the thief posted asking him/her not to brake into your house.
I totally want an Ipad but I don’t want what is happening with kindle happen with the Ipad. Oh the dilemma.
I love my Kindle. I actual bought it to read Silent Blade book you wrote that was only available electronically, Not all the books are drastically discounted and the truth is that electronic books should be cheaper than paper. Maybe not alot cheaper but cheaper. No trees are dying, no ink is being used, no printer setting, warehouse distribution, no extra garbage for the dump sites when books get old and ripped etc. Also, books should be available sooner logically.
I want everyone to get paid but going electronic is the way to go. Imagine you write a book, it gets edited and then distributed to the masses sooner.
The only down point is that Kindle isn’t in color yet and I miss color covers.
I get where your coming from Sam. Logically e-books should be cheaper because They are not killing trees. However just because the distribution to the consumer is an e-book doesn’t mean that it costs less to distribute in that format for publishers, Its the consumers who “believe” that because they aren’t killing trees it should be cheaper. Just because we are demand a lower price for a product doesn’t mean that the author or the publisher has put less effort into getting the work to market. It shouldn’t mean that they should get a smaller slice of the profits because we are cheapskates and the distributors are greedy. Don’t you think in the the ideal world the Author that created the work should get the most profit? Not the person who who makes it available. I appreciate a great book like I do art and in a gallery the artist gets the bulk and sale room the commission.
So I ask people because you can not get it in kindle e-book you would turn away from the author? Because what you are saying by doing that is that you care about they way you get it more than you care about the author or book!
What I would ask Amazon is how many of us have already pre-order your book? I know I have.
Thanks for this post. Very informative and I’m sorry to hear people are taking it out on you and other authors.
I agree with your idea about dead tree books being bundled with e-book, as they do this at one of the sites I get my quilting books from and it is extremely helpful to be able to start a new quilt straight-away instead of waiting for the 3-4 weeks for the dead tree version to make it to my house.
BTW can’t wait for the 25th!
Thanks for the info, Ilona. I did email Amazon with a threat to walk over to Borders and buy and physical book if Magic Bleeds is not straightened out by the 25th! I NEED it on the 25th!
I’m a techie and have to state that both Amazon and Apple devices are more “closed” than open, despite whatever their marketing departments say. I own both a Kindle and an iPod touch so feel it’s fair for me to state this, having used both. Now that we get over pointing fingers at tech companies not doing much of the right thing and where the fangirls fall…
Will you be posting links to any of the other ebook retailers for Magic Bleeds? I’d love pre-order and get it when it releases at midnight.
Pricing – though I’ve read many discussions and posts about ebook pricing models, I know they’re cutting shipping around paper from the equation. This should result in some savings somewhere and I’ll continue to think that until someone definitively points towards where that money is going instead. Still, I do think there should be a good middle ground or remodeling before the book industry takes a dive like what Apple iTunes helped introduce the music industry to.
Until then I’m clicking on the buttons stating I want to read this on X device and writing emails to the distributors as suggested! And yes, keeper books are still in paper.
I don’t think the ebook mess started with Amazon. In my view, it happened when the publishers got into bed with Apple and shafted us all: writers, retailers, readers.
The agency thing that the publishers pushed onto the booksellers meant this:
BEFORE: Booksellers were the publishers’ customers. Readers were booksellers’ customers. Booksellers bought at wholesale price and sold at any price they wanted. This included Amazon. Amazon was eating the cost of the loss-leader sales, not the publishers.
AFTER: Readers are the publishers’ customers. Booksellers are the publishers’ agents. The publishers set the e-book price, no discounting is allowed. The booksellers get a fixed proportion of the revenue, and publishers actually get a little less than before.
Amazon, whose hands weren’t particularly clean anyway, made a huge fuss and stopped selling Macmillan’s paper books, because it was Macmillan’s CEO who first announced this — to writers’ agents, not booksellers. Yeah, that Macmillan who was already notorious for selling e-books for 1.5x the price of the corresponding paperback.
Brouhaha! Writers unloaded on Amazon, because Amazon’s actions were affecting their p-book livelihood. Amazon capitulated.
But the agency mess was never just about Amazon. It affected *all* e-booksellers and therefore all e-readers. The rolling shitball, having collected e-booksellers and e-readers, is now in the process of collecting writers as well by way of decreased sales. Here are some of the effects:
1. No more rewards schemes including Fictionwise Buywise Club, because no discounting is allowed.
2. Increased georestrictions. Prior to agency they could be worked around. It’s a lot harder now.
3. Publishers phased in agency scheme before e-booksellers could change their systems or complete agreements, stopping sales in its tracks. Affects different e-booksellers in different ways.
4. Many e-books now unavailable at any price from: Amazon, Mobipocket, Fictionwise, Diesel, BooksOnBoard, &c., &c., &c.
5. E-booksellers have to collect sales tax where they previously didn’t have to.
6. Where e-books are available, prices have increased by a large amount.
So yeah. I reckon Apple and the publishers are to blame for all this. To them I give the stinkfinger salute.
To Ilona and Gordon I have nothing but goodwill and respect.
So, you’re saying I should buy unbranded cheap jeans instead of a Kindle? I’m joking… I just wanted to make you smile.
I’m from Canada. I sold my Sony 505 ereader and bought the new Kobo from Chapters/Indigo (it will be available in the US at Borders this summer). Both ereaders read epub. I buy all of Ilona’s books on epub and in paperback. I won’t switch to Kindle because Kindle wasn’t available in Canada for several years, during which time I amassed a large collection of epub ebooks for my Sony ereader. So I’ll stick to epub readers like Kobo. My husband has a Kindle, but the Kobo is a cheaper reading device with a better form and same 6″ display.
I’m from Australia and it has been a nightmare since they have changed the ebook process, I can’t buy anything. I do not have a Kindle as they didn’t sell them in Australia until recently. I
use independent ebook sellers such as booksonboad, ebook.com, and Diesel. My ereader reads multiple formats and so I didn’t have to bother but epub suits me the best. I just want to be able to buy the books when they are released.
I have written to both publishers and sellers and I am not gettng anything useful back, always the blame somewhere else. I do not want to irritate the authors, but just find out where I can buy your books.
I am in agony waiting for Magic Bleeds but I don’t think I will be able to read it for a good couple of months after it has been released.
We don’t mean to hassle you but we are addicted to your books and want to buy them.
I just e-mailed amazon…I had pre-ordered Magic Bleeds for my Kindle back in January and now that order has just disappeared. I did check Barnes and Noble (nook) and the Sony Reader site and Magic Bleeds is available for pre-order on their sites. With all this crap between amazon and the publishers a nook or sony reader are starting to look better and better…..
The truth is, the Kindle pales in comparison to ANY other ereader out there, basically, because it lacks the features and the flexibility others have.
I am incredibly interested in the Nook but currently I have a Sony Ereader. Not only can I buy and get ebooks at 12 am on release day for them (which I intend to do with your next book!) but I can also add a variety of file types to the document and use it for audio books or mp3s. Ipad, Nook, Sony Ereader . . . these are the ways of the future because they aren’t going to yoink your books from you, you’re not dependent upon a single publisher that has a monopoly, and sheer flexibility. Using my Sony EReader, I was able to buy my Organic Chemistry textbook and put it on the reader and carry it around and make notes directly in the book using the Ereader’s note software. Of course, my ereader is also backlit, which does wonders for reading in bed at night or in the car.
I recommend Kindle users express their distaste with Amazon and look to other sources. Maybe not an IPad, but Sony has their Ereader and B&N has the Nook. And like I said, both of those have the advantage that you can buy an ebook from ANY source you want (and that means you can shop to get deals!) and put it on your reader. Or even read those files on your computer.
I agree with Ilona. Amazon is trying to run a monopoly and its failing because of its own policies it put in place. It’s having to cut prices and strongarm publishers because its losing money because they wanted that monopoly. Don’t take it out on your authors, take it out on Amazon and hurt them by spending your money elsewhere.
I too was upset that the book disappeared from the kindle. Thankfully, I have an iPad so can download from b&n or iBook instead. I could download straight from the publisher, but you can’t pre-order the ebook there. I live in Canada, but have just created a US Itunes account so that I could download the iBook and found that you can already download a sample of Magic Bleeds…I have read the acknowledgement, which is probably a little desperate, but that coupled with the reviews has got me quite excited! Thanks for the books they are great. I don’t think this will affect your sales. People will just do what I did, find a way around it an order from somewhere else.
I have a Sony PRS 700 eReader and I have no complaints. I buy my books from the Sony e-bookstore, but I can upload pdfs, etc and I don’t have to buy my books only from the Sony store. They have many books and I rarely have a hard time finding an e-version of a book I want to read. I also like the way it looks better than the Kindle and I’ve heard better things about it. I investigated the Nook, but was slightly disappointed. While the Wi-fi feature is awesome, I found the touch screen interface lacking (there was a delay between when I typed in a key and it actually appeared on the screen). The Sony also comes with it’s own back lighting feature, whereas with the Nook you have to buy a separate booklight.
I never liked how the Kindle limited the books available to the reader both by format and by Amazon’s control over which books it sold (e.g. the term ‘Amazon Rated’ becoming part of popular lexicon). I think they owe it to their subscribers to offer the same books available from other retailers. It just makes better business sense. Who would apply for a Costco membership if they could only get one or two things, even if those things are really cheap, while SamsClub members spent a dollar more, but had access to dozens of items?
Anyways, Ilona and Gordon, I love your books! I recommend reading the cover of John Scalzi’s “Your Hate Mail Will Be Graded” and following suit. I, for one, wouldn’t mind reading the responses you’d come up with.
I had been seriously considering buying one of the e-readers out there (even though I am a bigger fan of dead tree books). I had been mulling over the various possibilities, but then a couple of months ago I started reading various articles about price issues and availability issues with e-books and decided that I would be avoiding e-readers until I felt like I knew what I was going to be in for with which ever one I bought. I hope the smoke settles soon. For the time being I’m sticking to paper books =)
I’ve done a lot of research into ereaders. The best ereader model out there, in my opinion, is the Sony Ereader PRS 700bc, which is unfortunately no longer available. It has a note typing feature, allows for listening to music/audiobook files, was backlit with the screen in such a way as to imitate real paper, and allows for adding epub, doc, txt, and pdf files.
Given that its not on the market now, the second best ereader is the Nook by B&N. The i-pad has some great features, don’t get me wrong, but its larger, more expensive, and its mostly meant to be a kind of mini-computer, NOT an ereader. The Nook incorporates many of the Kindle features with features the Sony Ereader had. None of the new models of ereaders actually come with backlighting. GIven that the Nook actually has a color LCD screen, it probably does not need to be backlit, because it functions like a computer screen. I’m not positive about this though.
The Nook has internet connection and allows you to get newspapers, magazines and some limited web browsing to go (which also means you can be out and buy books). Like the Sony reader, it allows for multiple formats and allows you to upload books/files from other sources (make your grocery list in word, and take it with you!). It has audiobook/mp3 features, it allows the ability to play a few games. Most awesomely, it has a feature that’s created to allow you to lend books between you and your friends. You can also preview books before you buy them.
At $259, its one of the cheapest and most complete ereader packages out there.
I know I sound kind of like a walking advertisement, but I have done a lot of research on the topic because I was helping a friend find the best ereader for himself recently. I’m one of those “do heavy research before you buy expensive things” kind of people and if my research can help others, great =D
Amazon aren’t stocking the paper version in the UK either at the moment. It isn’t on the Waterstone’s site either and our Borders went into liquidation. I don’t know where I’m going to get my copy from or how.
I am in the same position – doesn’t look like my dead tree pre-order is going to happpen. I used to get them as e-books from BOB or A1, but the independent ebook sellers have been affected by this mess too. The ones who are left, e.g. B & N rigorously enforce the geographic restrictions.
I do not understand what fool thought it would be a good idea to take away the choice of buying a legitimate copy of a book and supporting your favourite author or stealing from them and downloading and illegal copy and replace it with a choice between not being able to get hold of a copy of your favourite authors’ books (no matter the price) at all and stealing from them by downloading an illegal copy.
I seriously am not following the logic
If I win the lottery I’ll buy the rights from Ilona & Gordon and give the books away – everyone’s happy!
You can buy ebooks through Sony without the ereader. Just download their software and install it. It downloads as epubs. I don’t *think* they follow any geographic restriction as I don’t know how they would. Alternatively, if you have a friend who buys it at B&N as an ebook, they can “lend” the book to you for 7 days or so as an ebook!
Sony do enforce the geographic restrictions – I can’t remember if they do it by credit card or IP address – but I remember that they are one of the major e-book retailers that wouldn’t sell Dreamfever to me (the exact same thing happened to my Amazon/Book Depository pre-orders with that book too).
A friend on another forum offered the B&N loan facility – I’ll see if it will work if I can’t get a copy of my own on the release date.
I have a Kindle and honestly I could take it or leave it. Now that my favorite authors are not available I may just leave it! I figured it had to do with Amazon and $$$$. Just like anything thing else, they suck you in and then expect you to pay more to get your fix! That said, I would never blame the author for their books not being Kindlized (huh?). I will just go buy the book… with coupons, at discount stores or get it at my library.
There is a downside to having retailers consistently undersell your product — eventually, after they’ve sold all their own products (in this case the Kindle) they will come back to you and demand you lower your wholesale prices since they’re losing money. I saw this in action when I worked for a company that supplied products to Walmart. Wally World was always looking for ways to shift their costs to the manufacturer and since they’re so big and can place giganto orders, most businesses don’t feel they can back away from those sales. Once they’re sucked in, they’re pretty much going to have to dance to WM’s tune.
During that race to reach the lowest possible selling point, a lot of folks get hurt in the process (in this case the publishers’ bottom line — they’re lucky to make 10% profit a year — and the authors’ royalty statements). Amazon absorbs the losses because they know they’ve locked in their customers.
Not that I trust Apple, either. I’m not a fan of monopolies in any form. Too much power leads to situations like the food fight between Amazon and Penguin. E-books should be available to our readers at a fair cost and in a form they can use on different devices. That’s the real bottom line.
I have none. No Kindle and no I-Pad.
I have masses of Books in my living room and in my bedroom though.
I am sorry for Illona and Gordon that people are not friendly with them.
Don´t mind those people, we love you and your books.
I would not have known about a battle between the sellers, but i was on my way
to look at the countdown for my new Kate Daniels book when i saw this.
I am positive the book will look good in my living room, just like all your other books do.
I am proud of every book i have, aaand
With electronics i could not show off either
yours have a special place, with Patty Briggs Books and dry roses.
I am looking sooo forward to the 25 of May
Just a few things….
Even if you have a kindle, there are lots of other stores you can buy books from
So yes, it sucks right now that I can’t get some of my favorite authors… I can still buy from fictionwise and mybooksandmore and have plenty to read. In fact I now have a whole slew of new authors I probably would not have picked up before.
As for the pricing debate…. I do blame publishers because I think they are going about it wrong. I don’t want to pay 12.99 for a book that I don’t own, can’t share, cant read across multiple devices, etc. Those same limitations are on ALL ebooks…. whether you buy from amazon or barnes and noble or sony… you do not own that book. You can’t share it with your friends like you would a print copy. you can’t resell it when you are finished with it.
If the publishers want us to pay 12.99 for print versions of hard cover releases, they need to make it raise the value of those ebooks. Better formatting, include covers and working tables of contents, let us share them (within limits but more reasoanble than the once per lifetime of the nook), let us read them on more than one device. Make that ebook worth 12.99 and make me feel like I own it. Until then I am with Amazon on this one, which totally sucks for me. But I adore my kindle and would never switch to another device. It is far less limited than most think and it can’t compare to an Ipad…. they just aren’t the in the same category.
oops forgot to mention….
all of that said, I still don’t blame authors and would never consider emailing any of them to complain. Its frustrating, especially when I refuse to buy hardcovers on principle…. but authors are getting screwed just like readers are.
I do agree with someone above who says its interesting that Penguin is the only publishers to not have a deal with Amazon… makes me wonder what the hold up is between them and what Penguin wants that Amazon isn’t willing to give.
I have 5 or 6 different reader apps on my desktop computer. Including Kindle for PC. But I bought *pre-ordered* Magic Bleeds e-book thru B & N
So while I’m not thrilled about the tax I AM thrilled that I will have Magic Bleeds on my screen May 25th !
The only unpleasantness involved was discovering the tax they’d tacked onto the advertised price of $6.99. It probably was still lower priced than Amazon’s standard prices of $7.99-$9.99 * or higher* for a new e-book
What I won’t be able to buy it on my kindle!!!! I am really upset I have been looking forward to this book since last year. I wish I was somewhere I could just run to target and buy it but Im stuck in BFE this summer in a ranger trainee program and the closeset thing to a walmart/target is a dollar general and that is 30 min away. Damm Damm I wish I would have won one of those arcs.
yeah, this is why I haven’t boughten an Ereader in any size, shape or form(at). There is something to be said about waiting a year or so to buy the latest gadgetry….lol
I wouldn’t mind paying the same price for an ebook as a dead tree…just cuz I’m not paying for the paper, doesn’t mean the convenience isn’t worth it. And if they want to charge the hardback price, well then I’m thinking like an e video or maybe snippet video of the author reading a chapter could be included….some sort of happy enticement to buy the more expensive version….people will buy it.
It seems a bit who holds the shiniest shiney at the moment and I don’t really need the bauble just yet, so I’ll continue to buy my dead tree versions until they sort things out. But I agree, the authors don’t have any control over much unless the companies are trying to give the content away for free and at that point I think you can yank/sue for your content. or maybe your publisher does for you.
can’t wait for the 25th, btw. I will harass my b&n as for a book like that, it really should be night before shipment and not late afternoon shipment on release day. some days I just don’t get their logic, I know it’s not their fault sometimes, but I’m still blaming them.
1) I buy books from multiple sites to put on my kindle, so I am not “locked” in to Amazon. 2) Nobody is going to remove books from my kindle because I back up my documents folder to a secure location. 3) Yes we should bring out the firing squad for Amazon. How dare they cut into the publishers 3-martini lunches and plush offices in Manhatten. This must not be allowed to happen in a capitalist society.
I have no sympathy for the publishers. In my view, they are just getting in the way between me and the author.
The tone of your post is very aggressive so I hesitate to engage in any discussion. It reads – and this might not have been your intent – as if you actively hate the publishers, which I can’t quite wrap my head around because they are the guys who make the product you read. Without the publisher, my work would not exist. Nor would Charlaine Harris, Jim Butcher and a number of other authors. The publishers’ profit margin is actually ridiculously slim.
Amazon is not an angel. It’s a cut-throat company. Just last year it nearly bankrupted the lot of independent authors and small indie publishers. Amazon launched its own print on demand venture and it forced small print on demand independent companies to either use it or maintain a large stock which none of them could afford.
Here is a link to the PMA:
http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/publisher-news/article/12200-pma-calls-for-amazon-to-reconsider-pod-stance-.html
Here is a good article that talks about price discrimination and its applications:
http://knowledgeproblem.com/2010/02/02/the-amazon-macmillan-ebook-kerfuffle-an-ode-to-price-discrimination/
Laney’s comment made me think of something else…. I don’t know about other kindle owners but I personally have no probably paying the same price for my kindle book as say MMPB or trade.6.99/7.99/8.99/9.99 is a fair price for a full length novel no matter how it is published. I have a bigger issue when they are inflating the price because its coming out in hardback…. or when the ebook costs more than the paperback/trade – especially since I think many kindle owners would never buy the hardback to begin with. This is where they are misunderstanding their customers and making a mistake.
Of course i have issues with hardback vs paperback publishing in general, its all lame and classist if you ask me. Release all of them at different price points on the same day and be done with it.
I’ve owned a Kindle since they first appeared on the market a few years ago. I did research on the different ereaders available prior to purchasing it. I don’t regret my purchase. I don’t purchase my books exclusively through Amazon. However, I did discover Ilona Andrews via Amazon. The “items you might like” application has really helped me find other authors that were really talented..
I won’t pretend lthat Amazon is the bad guy or the good guy, they just happen to be the guy I buy most of my books from. I won’t pretend that the publishers are the good guys either. The information about independent publishers being almost bankrupt is absolutely depressing. The sad thing is that its kind of like Wal-Mart. I keep reading stories about what a horrible company it is on the back end, but it still makes it very comfortable for the customers. It took some self discipline to stop shopping at Wal-Mart and pay a little more at other stores. I don’t think I have that type of self discipline for Amazon too. .
The Ilona Andrews writing team produces a product that will give their readers the initiative to purchase their books. We are also intelligent enough to work around whatever issues there are. One readers comment about reading it on her computer was a great idea.
I really do believe however that this situation is going to be resolved one way or the other this year.
I have been a major purchaser of ebooks for many years. I still occassionally buy a paperback if it is a series/author or book that I love, but space is starting to be a serious issue.
I loved the fact that an ebook was cheaper than a paperback and that I could download my book in an instant. If I have a craving or urge for a particular book or genre then it was only a click away. Plus I can store hundreds of titles on my PDA and take them where ever I go.
Another consideration is that the quality of a paperback starts to deteriorate very quickly these days, even when keeped out of the light etc.
Then one day the publishers start putting a geographical restriction on ebooks (I am from Australia). Then prices start to rise. I refuse to pay the same price for an ebook as I would for paperback. You cannot tell me it costs the same to produce an electronic version as it does a printed copy. So much for being eco friendly.
All of a sudden ipad comes out and consumers cannot purchase ebooks from the Big 5 publishers. I do not own a Kindle and have been purchasing ebooks from Fictionwise and Diesel ebooks, which are fabulous companies.
I originally read the first Kate Daniels titles as Library copies, which I then purchased as ebooks.
Due to the decision by the major publishers, my purchase of ebooks has been dratically reduced. Luckily some of the best authors are at the independant publishing houses. While this issue has affected my enjoyment, I am sure it must have an impact on authors.
Damn. It kinda sucks to hear this about the Kindle. I’ve been wanting to buy one for a while now, mostly because I like to travel light and yet will usually read 3 to 4 books a day when I’m on holiday and that eats up all my luggage allowance. I liked the look of the kindle pages.
I tend to buy the eBook first if it comes out before the paperback for 2 reasons: 1) The price of trade paperbacks or hard covers is $35 to $50 over here which is a lot of money and 2) I HATE trade paperbacks and hard covers. I like nice small compact books that I can slip into my handbag and carry with me and which are easy to take into the bath. So these days I tend to buy the eBook and then the paperback once it comes out later. I prefer to read from a “real” book, but I also tend to forget to bring a second book with me if I’m close to finishing one I’m currently reading.
Thank you for the explanation from the publisher’s view.
One thing I don’t understand is a publisher’s reason for pricing their paperback and the Kindle ebook version at the same (full) price when there are no printing or shipping costs for an ebook.
Here’s an example (which I wrote about on the amazon kindle discussion board) –
I’ve read all of Sandra Hill’s Viking books – on the Kindle when available. The latest one is “Viking in Love” and the publisher priced it (according to amazon) at $7.99. The paperback is also $7.99 – although it’s actually cheaper by using the “4-for-3″ at amazon.
Because of the full price, I won’t buy “Viking in Love” on Kindle… nor in paperback because of the apparent greed on the part of the publisher.
Dee,
You have to pay the author. You have to pay the editor. The assistant editor. You have to pay the copy editor. The cover artist. The text editor. The proofreader. The managing editor, who makes sure that all the editors are on the same page. The publicist. The marketing department. The accounting department. The legal department. You have rent on the building and utilities.
All these costs don’t go away because it’s an e-book. In the end, the cost of an e-book ends up to be about $1-2 cheaper than a print book.
Thank you for your reply. ITA there are fixed costs no matter what format the book is but that still doesn’t explain why a publisher prices a book (paperback or hardback) and ebook would be priced the same – especially when it’s the full price.
That’s my problem with Penquin Books right now. It smacks of greed and I just won’t be a party to it.
Thank you.
p.s. I should have read the last post before hitting the reply button, lol.
The second sentence should have been:
ITA there are fixed costs no matter the format but that still doesn’t explain why a publisher prices a book (paperback or hardback) and ebook the same amount – especially when it’s at full price.
Well, I for one am totally bummed. I have not read two of the books I was so looking forward to because of this mess. Now, two more are on the horizon. I have been counting down the months waiting for April and May when all the next books in my favorite series are released….now, nothing.
I have complained to both Amazon and Penguin because I believe it takes two parties to have a disagreement. Neither is without blame. And while I understand the authors defending their publishers (it is the publishers who pay them after all), I still believe both parties have to take some blame in this.
Bottom line for me is that I will not purchase these books until they are available on Kindle. If I have to go to a library to read them or park in Barnes and Noble for a few days to get through them, I won’t spend a dime of my money until they are available in the format I want.
Who loses out in this scenario, we all do….Amazon, Penguin, the author, and me! It’s a bummer, but I will stick to my guns.
Hi,
I’m reading the explanation about your books out of KIndle market and, although I can understand it, there’s a “small” point that has been mentioned at the comments. Books haven’t disappeared only from Amazon. They have disappeared for almost all the small bookshops (OmniLit, Fictionwise, BOB), and, casually, they’re almost only at B&N and Sony. What a surprise! Anyway, somebody has said that with Amazon you always have your books although you don’t backup them, but it isn’t the same with the rest of the bookshop/readers. That’s not true either. Anyway, I’ll try to buy the electronic version and, if I’m not able to buy it, I’m afraid I’ll don’t buy in paper version, no more space at my house.
And about ebooks 1$ or 2$ cheaper, sorry, that was before, now, a lot of them are at the same price. We’ll see. Neither Amazon nor Apple (sorry, I don’t like Ipad
) nor the publisher are saints, and customers always lose.
Oh! I actually have the answer for that one.The books are technically in the small bookshops. They will definitely be available soon. From what I understand, when the reorganization took place, the small e-booksellers had to now work with Ingram and other large distributors. That caused a backlog of titles. They DO have them. It’s just the question of when they will get uploaded.
Here is off the top of my head e-tailers who should have it by the release date: B&N, Apple, Sony, Kobo and E-book.com Fictionwise etc, will have the books, they are completely under contract, it’s just the question of processing.
Technically, perhaps, but in a practical way, no, sorry, only big companies (in some cases, only B&N) have them. If they’re not uploaded, they don’t exist for customers.
By the way, sorry about the image. Gravatar and me don’t go along.
Thank you for listing the places you’re newest book will be at.
I’ve never heard of you until I saw a link to this page on an amazon.com discussion board and, after checking out your books, I decided to buy the Kate Daniels series for my Kindle.
Then I found out your latest book isn’t listed as available for Kindle so I was going to forget about the series. Now that I know it’ll be at Fictionwise.com, I’ll go ahead and get them.
Thanks!
Thanks for explaining, Ilona. I’m pretty bummed I can’t get Magic Bleeds on the Kindle… Now I’ll just have to buy all your books in PB form too
Will this keep happening? I don’t want my Kindle investment to be a waste
Personally I am not going to use any e-book reader that is backlit. The i-pad, sony, and most others are. Kindle isn’t. That was one of the major selling points for me. The apparent ability of Amazon to obtain content for the device was another. (also, Kindle can do tons of stuff, like read audio books, display .pdf files, play mp3, can be used as an offline newsreader and sync with your pc to load up websites… and much more if you make the effort to learn the device’s features)
This fight Amazon is having with publishers is really depressing me. There have been several books on my amazon pre-order list that have been cancelled because of this argument.
I just wonder if your publisher realizes that once the book is released, and not available on kindle, that they will probably lose more money to illegal copies than they would have lost from just letting Amazon take a loss selling the book.
Bryan,
I have a Sony PRS-505 and it is not backlit. I can also buy an e-book from just about anywhere and put it on my Sony. I don’t have to worry about having a book I bought somewhere besides Amazon converted to Kindle format. I don’t think there should be a proprietary format for a device. Just publish the e-books so they can be bought and read on any e-book device and I’m happy. I don’t need an internet connection on my device, I just download to my laptop and then move to the reader.
My PRS-505 also plays music and displays photos and that’s really all I need. I bought it for the express purpose of being able to take along several books without weight when I travel. At home I still want my dead tree books to hold in my hands.
Bryan,
I completely agree with you. I got the kindle specifically because it is not backlit. Which increases the battery life and decreases the strain on your eyes when reading. I like to read multiple books for long periods, and reading on a backlit device like the ipad, would just not be comfortable for me. I think the ipad is a great device, with many functions, but as an ebook reader it is definitly not my first choice. As for the nook, thats a great ebook reader as well, however the from everything I have read, the software is not as far along as the Kindle, and is slightly more buggy. I have no doubt this will be improved in the future, but for now its only benefit is a small LCD screen to select books to read. I’m sticking with the kindle, which is much more stable.
Also I think the publishers are getting greedy, which hurts the readers and the authors. Ebooks should not be priced the sames a regular books. I understand that in reality there is only a 1-2 dollar difference between ebook overhead costs and regular paper book overhead costs. However, I still think if publishers want their ebooks to be priced higher they should offer things of equal value. I can resell a paper book, share a paper book, and can expect the quality of editing of most paper books to be better than ebooks. Why should I pay the same price for ebooks when I am getting a product which is equivalently less. I can’t share the book, I can’t sell it, and many times the editing quality is severely less than the paper edition.
Anyway, I’m going to step off my soap box and thank you Ilona for some great books. I will be purchasing Magic Bleeds as an ebook from one of the smaller retailers as soon as it comes out. Can’t wait to read the next one after that. I hate the waiting part though.
Dave
Personally, I see it as greed on the publisher’s part. I’ve worked in publishing for the past 13 years, so I know what goes on. Once a manuscript has been accepted and prepped for typesetting, the file is there and the cost to convert it to a compatible format for e-pub is negligible, so even if the publisher charges $5.99 for an e-book, they are still making a profit. The cost of the production is recouped from the sale of the hard copy.
And let’s not forget the Royalty Free books the publishers get away with. When a publisher requests an initial print run for books, let’s work with small numbers, of 500 copies of a book, they overrun that order by 250 copies. Yet the number they relay to the author and the numbers they base the royalty payout on is 500. So technically, when the publisher says only 100 copies were sold, realistically 350 copies were sold, as they take their money from the overrun first. Most authors are not aware of this, and it makes my blood boil to hear the authors go to the defense of the publisher, when the publisher screws the authors over every chance it gets.
The publishers are only in it for themselves. They don’t care about the consumer, and the certainly don’t care about the authors whose work they publish. If they did, these books would be available to the consumer in all formats while the parties hash out their differences. This way the author isn’t hurt as both parties try to resolve their differences.
First let me begin by saying I love your books.
I purchased my first Kindle 2 weeks after it was first advertised on Amazon. I then bought my wife a Kindle, and then sold my first Kindle to a friend and bought the Kindle 2. Since that point I have amassed over 600 books on my Kindle. I have purchased over 270 books from Amazon and have also bought many books directly from Baen Books, since they offer non drm books that are formatted for the Kindle (and many other e readers I might add). I also enjoy many classic novels from the public domain. I found your books due to Amazon’s recommendations page and have purchased all of your books from them. I have tried many different ebook readers, and found the Kindle to be the most flexible with the cellular connection and a web browser that is open. I downloaded the mobipocket guide and directly download from that guide on regular occasions.
As to the fight between Amazon and Penguin, I hope that it is resolved soon, because I don’t plan to buy any books or ebooks if I can’t read them on my Kindle. As to the Ipad, while I think it is a very interesting tablet pc, I can’t put it in a ziploc baggie and take it to the beach or sit by the pool. I think it has great possibilities for running apps from all the major booksellers.
As to the 1984 debacle, Amazon has continued to apologize and states that they will never remove a book from a Kindle without the consent of the customer. I think they learned their lesson. As to Black Magic Sanction by Kim Harrison, I am looking at it right now on my Kindle. I pre-ordered it, looked at my price and saw that I paid exactly what I had pre-ordered it for.
As to other companies with their ebook policies, I believe they all have a learning curve and will make mistakes when it comes to policy. I don’t see Barnes and Noble any differently than I do Amazon, they are both huge companies with profit as their main goal. This is a goal I don’t disagree with. I like capitalism.
I personally don’t trust Apple, due to the mishandling of Itunes, and the fact that in the beginning they were only leasing music. I think they instigated this whole mess by allowing publishers to set pricing directly, and it is totally different than how they began Itunes when they forced the music companies to their pricing model.
At least with the Ipad you can still choose where to buy your media (for now). For now I will stick to my Kindle and my Iphone. I may buy an Ipad at a later date, even if I feel they named it like a feminine hygiene product (the Islate rumor prior to the Ipads release seemed like a much better name to me).
Keep writing your great books, hopefully your publisher and Amazon can work it out so I can read them.
Tod,
I don’t trust Apple either and believe me, I’m so very tired of this whole Kindle issue. I agree with you on inevitability of this silliness – the e-book market is so new and nobody quite knows what to do with it. I completely respect your choice of not purchasing book if they are not available on your device.
Thank you for not sending hatemail.
I agree with you on bundling a dead tree and e-book together. There were several of us on Jeaniene Frost’s forum who were discussing that same thing. As for a universal format I like my PDF format that Acrobat makes. I have a Sony PRS-505 and I have used Acrobat to make PDF copies of several of my older books published back in the 60′s so I can take them on the reader. Works for me.
I had my pre-order cancelled too. Not sure at this point if I am going to look elsewhere for it or not. I no longer purchase paper books (for a number of reasons).
It saddens me a bit, that in your first post you appear to have taken the publishers story, “hook, line, and sinker.” I do realize that Amazon is no angel but is a “for Profit” company ( I am not sure that they are anymore “cutthroat” than any of the other companies involved in this mess). I also believe that the authors do have some say in how the publishers treat their works.
I love your books and I look forward to reading more of them. But there are so many other authors out there that I enjoy, or have yet to discover, that I probably will find other things to read until they are released on Amazon. That, unfortunately, hurts you the most. Which is why I think your voice in the publishers ear is very important.
I respect your choice.
I wanted to thank you for posting this information. It was good to find out what was going on. I knew this was not your (the author’s) fault, but I did not know where else to look for information. As for you receiving hate mail, some people can’t help but be stupid.
I am an avid kindle reader, and like many posters, I would have never found this series without Amazon’s suggestions. I am under no illusions that amazon is a saint, it is after all, much like publishers, a business. I think the ebook “revolution” will change things for authors, publishers and readers. It’s extremely irritating to have to deal with the changing environment and miss out on a book I have been waiting to read. I will be sending Amazon and Penguin a letter expressing my displeasure, and hopefully they will receive enough complaints about enough books that they will come to an agreement. I look forward to reading Magic Bleeds and Bayou Moon, but I will be patient and wait for them to come out on kindle. (Hopefully, I won’t have to wait too long.)
Again thank you for posting this. It was good to hear excactly what was going on.
i have a laptop, i am a total bookworm, i have adobe reader, kindle for pc, ms reader, e-pub what can i say , i like to cover all the bases!
I’m just saying, Calibre. I have a kindle and when I couldn’t get certain books I bought them elsewhere and convert them using calibre on my computer. Sounds like a kufuffle but it’s easy. Calibre also saves your books in the ‘Library’ if you want. Works for most ereaders not just the kindle. I suggest using Calibre if your ereader links you to just one book provider and you find it somewhat lacking.
I got a Kindle two weeks ago. I wanted to gradually replace the 2000 plus books I’ve collected over the years, reduce space at home and have my library at my fingertips wherever I was in the world. I hadn’t realised that you still can’t get ALL books on Kindle – stupid of me.
I wanted to replace my Kate Daniels books with eBook copies and so I ordered the first three Magic Bites/Burns/Strikes but then realised that not all of them are on Kindle .mobi format…. Read Ilona’s blog here and contacted Amazon. I explained that the point of my having my Kindle was to replace paper books and that only having part collections accessible in .mobi format defeated the object.
I expected a response back from Amazon explaining the situation, maybe apologising for the inconvenience. Instead I got no written response, just the three eBooks I’d ordered and paid for removed from my library and a refund processed.
I’m not a happy bunny.
Does anyone know where i can buy Magic Bleeds online in ebook form from Australia.
I have a kindle (which i love by the way, so much nicer to read on then the iPad, which i also love) BUT i cant get magic bleeds and its making me sad because I love these books and i’m sick and want to read more.
So ive tried lots of online ebook shops and none of the jerkfaces sell to australia. I dont really want to go through all that web trickery with geographical locations. So if anyone knows please help.
Yes! I’m thrilled to see an author on board with “buy a print copy AND get the electronic version” THANK YOU! I’d happily spend a few extra bucks for the “bundled” version of the print & electronic copies. Most of my book purchases are research-related books. Expensive books (by comparison to mass-market paperbacks) – at this price point I *want* the print copy on my shelf (and photos just aren’t the same on Kindle versus print). At the same time I love the form factor of my kindle – I can have 100′s of books at my finger tips (easier for cross referenceing/comparing), run the font size up or down, not have the 10 pounds in my lap of the print copy, search key words, AND I can highlight and notate all without actually vandalizing my book.
When do you intend to make all of your ebooks available in Australia?
Caley, I have been asked this question over a hundred times. I’ve been cussed at, berated, and accused of all sorts of things because the books are not available in Australia.
The answer is: when one of Australian publishers purchases the rights. I am not a publisher. I can’t make the books available. I don’t make books, I just write them.
I can only sell the right to distribute the books to someone who is already located in the country. Contact your favorite publisher and ask them to purchase the rights – I’d be thrilled.