Oy.
O_O
This is why I don’t usually do workshops. We mostly end up critiquing other writers, who don’t want the cushioning of the critique, they just want the meat and potatoes of the problem. I’m afraid we might make people cry.
I think we might have to do the card thing, to where we give out two cards a green and a red one. If the writer feels that they need some time time to come to terms to our critique, they can hold up the red card and we’ll move on.
Sometimes even bad guys have to be heroes…
August 30th, 2011
How do you send a killer to the grave when he’s already dead?
Having narrowly averted an (under)world war, Cat Crawfield wants nothing more than a little downtime with her vampire husband, Bones. Unfortunately, her gift from New Orleans’ voodoo queen just keeps on giving–leading to a personal favor that sends them into battle once again, this time against a villainous spirit.
Centuries ago, Heinrich Kramer was a witch hunter. Now, every All Hallows Eve, he takes physical form to torture innocent women before burning them alive. This year, however, a determined Cat and Bones must risk all to send him back to the other side of eternity–forever. But one wrong step and they’ll be digging their own graves.
Read the first three chapters here.
Amazon, Barnes & Noble, BooksAMillion, Powells, or your favorite book store.
Faction Quiz
Find your place in Kate’s Atlanta
Kate Twitter Funny
If Kate and Curran Could Twitter, what would they say?
Ebooks
Kate Daniels meets Saiman for the first time and Cat and Bones get to guard a spoiled brat.
Curran: Volume I
Look into the Beast Lord’s mind.
A collection of scenes from Curran’s point of view.
Curran Vol II
A short story that takes place between Magic Bleeds and Magic Slays
you know, that sounds like a very good idea!
different people have different reactions. while one might think: oh, sounds good, why, I really should have thought of that. the next thinks: oh no, they hate it, they hate it, and I put all my love and heart into it and they say it’s crap.
I mean, I know you won’t say that something is crap. but some people are more sensitive than others and might hear things you never said. so, the green and red card system sounds easily manageable and gives people the choice, a kind of control.
Oh Lord, you are pulling out the mythical bootcamp “Stress Card” trick. I always heard of those but never saw one. I promise I will not go all “Full Metal Jacket” on our people. Can you imagine if Joker had pulled a stress card on D.I. Hartman?
You are laughing. I think people will be crying.
Just a question… Is it normal for you two to communicate via comments on a blog post? Because that’s… Cute… but kinda weird!
When a comment is made on the blog, it’s a public statement, kind of like “for the record” type of declaration.
For the record, Lord Panda feels that stress cards are silly. That’s because he thinks everyone will be cool and sometimes peeps are not cool when it comes to writing.
people might not be crying, but why not give them the cards? I like ilona’s idea…
Well that and it seems to me that if you are a grown up and you pay for a writer to give you an honest critique you should suck it up and not need to be coddled.
I agree with Gordon.
I hope you are right
Sadly I’ve had bad experiences before.
In the land of “should” your comments make perfect sense. However, I have noticed that we don’t always live in this land.
My writing group instituted a comfort animal policy. A stuffed animal of some sort (usually a dragon) is produced for those who need comfort during the critique process. It is rarely used but it’s an option.
Personally, I would rather someone slam me with every bad thing they can think of than be gentle with me when critiquing my work. It is painful but the work is always the better for the honest input. And that’s the point, isn’t it?
That is brilliant!
Now I want my own comfort animal for work!
That’s such a wonderful idea.
Feel free to borrow it – I am sure my group won’t mind.
I have a stuffed demon on my desk. It works really well when people start to annoy me.
While I love it when I get honest feedback – including outright criticism – (even more if it’s explained to me/has clear examples), sometimes you need five minutes to suck it up, get over the urge to start bawling and become rational and interested in improving your work again
I think the red card idea is great. You can just hold it up if you need a moment to get your composure back – excellent solution.
Personally, I’d feel silly cuddling a teddy bear, but it’s a sweet idea. On the other hand, the stuffed demon sounds great *evil grin*
people probably will be crying. we can make tshirts that say i survived ilona andrews. :::hugs:::
you’re very good at crit. you are. and you’re diplomatic. :::pours you a beer::: you’ll be fine. you’ll probably make people very happy.
on the other hand… i’m glad i’m not taking a workshop :::grins:::
only cause the monkeys and i can spend time! woot!
wait, you’re bringing the monkeys right?
Yep the girls are coming and they are very excited for Texas and the chance tjo see you as well. I think you have had some of Ilona’s caustic insight andn since we are still friends I hope it is ok.
I want one of those t-shirts!!! I will even submit a sample chapter to earn one.
Where I fall more in the Gordon camp (suck up and deal, people!) I have seen the other situation where someone just couldn’t cope. Not everyone has built up the callouses pubbed writers have lovingly nurtured over the years. I think there should be a “I’m losing it” option like the card or something like that. Along with the advice that this sort of input is what they’re going to get if they try to go pro. And depending on the editor, it might not be delivered as kindly or as thoughtfully as Ilona and Gordon’s critique.
Don’t worry; we can take it! Feedback, especially criticism, is an opportunity to improve as a writer. If no one tells you what’s wrong, then you have no idea what you should fix. Personally, I’m really looking forward to the feedback. Whether it’s positive or negative, I know that I’ll come away from the workshop a stronger writer.
Reading yours. Is good.
I may have to take a screenshot of your comment and frame it on my wall.
I doubt the two of you would put a critique in a way that would purposefully make a person feel small (just the impression I get from the blog and MB). Otherwise, getting notes from someone you admire takes a lot of the sting out of it. It’s a golden opportunity.
Example: My DH is one of the top names in his field and he gives workshops sometimes. Before he became “known” people got their backs up at his thorough notes, but now it’s all stars in eyes and “you helped me so much!”
Anyone who would raise the red card because they can’t take the critique of someone they admire (enough to go through a submission process!) doesn’t really want to be a writer, IMO. I think it’s laudable you’re taking the time to do this. If it’s unappreciated, I’m sure I can find a few others who would gladly take your critique in its intended spirit. In short, don’t feel bad. They asked for it.
I think the card thing is a good idea-some people can take the hard criticism-and we some can take it, but need a few minutes.
Plus, some people might want to come to terms with it… ah… privately. That doesn’t mean they don’t want to/can’t, but they are just dealing with it in a different manner. We all do things differently and this is giving each of them some level of control, a choice of sorts.
What a wonderful gift you are giving these writers to hear the truth without having to wonder if it’s being sugar coated!
I’m hopeless when it comes to evaluating my own writing. It’s like putting on a pair of self-doubt goggles that cause my critical eye to go all blurry. And well meaning friends and family usually can’t be trusted with honest criticism. Even teachers seem so concerned with preserving our fragile self-esteem that they
don’t provide enough critical details for you to learn and improve. When bad writing is praised as much as the good stuff, it makes it hard to trust the expert.
What a great idea! I would love to hear your critiques! I used to belong to an on-line group that did this and completely understand what you are going through!
I took my critiques with(I hope anyway….)grace. Not sure if I could keep the brave facade face to face.
Maybe turn your back to them (or vice versa) while you critique. This way, you’ll only hear the sniffling!
So is it like
Green Card: ” Dish it out! I can’t take it, I have armadillo skin?”
Yellow Card: “Give me a minute so I do not cry all over my work before you dish it out to me!”
Red Card: “Why on earth did I sign up for this, they hate me!!! Oh God, don’t talk to me! How will I ever go on!”
lol.
I’m of the mind that if you sign up for a writing critiquing… then be prepared to.. you know… be crititqued
TBS, I would be in the yellow camp. I would totally not want you to pull punches, but I am so totally over emotional that I would cry anyways… I would probably even give myself multiple pep talks. Words like “You came here for a reason, suck it up!” or “Ilona doesn’t hate YOU, she just thinks your writing (insert word choice here) Most likely a gloomy word, like SUCKS! LOL. Or my favorite “My god Woman you birthed four babies naturally, and your crying b/c there is red pen on your paper??? ”
Crap see I didn’t proof-read..
“Dish it out, I CAN take it!
Doh!
And spell check isn’t working either..
Double red pen whammy
I’m not sure I understand the red card/green card thing. I tried to Google it, but I couldn’t find anything except some game about “peace building.”
I’m with Gordon. Your only obligation is to be fair. Since you’re a decent person, diplomacy is advisable. BUT. If a writer can’t take honest feedback she is in over her head. Learning to handle criticism is as important to publication as writing is.
As for using the red card- or any other “You gotta stop because I can’t take it” signal- I would so not want to be that guy. It’s like crying at work. Career limiting. If you are too sensitive to take critique in a public venue then you should not seek it out.
It sucks to hurt people’s feelings but you have no way of knowing who is going to disintegrate until it happens. And even the ones who do lose their cool might get over it after a few days to mull it over. Have a beer, play with the iPad, and bring your A game! Those are some lucky writers.
Cheers.
I hate crying at work. If only our personal lives actually cut off when we walked inside the building, that would be nice.
Thankfully I work with a group of people who blubber at least as much as I do.
I can only imagine what giving critiques to aspiring writers must be like. The closest I can relate is giving monthly counseling to my soldiers when I was still in the army.
If they were messing up or weak in something, I told them. One time it didn’t go so well. I had a girl with a major attitude problem who loved to question orders. I had spoken to her about it, but finally felt it had to be put in writing on her monthly counseling statement. She threw a big fit and complained to my superiors. Then I got in trouble because they claimed I should have given her an event oriented counseling after each time she caused a problem. This seemed silly to me as I simply wanted her to recognize the problem in general and work on it. Needless to say all wording of her issues had to be taken out of the monthly statement. It really ticked me off that she couldn’t take the slightest bit of criticism and instead cried to my superiors.
Ahh, the good old days when you could chew out a Marine and they would take it.
I’m a retired Marine, As a civilian, I’ve found some people ask for things but they’re not quite ready to deal with the results, so it’s better to be prepared for them. 
Ilona and Gordon, I hope everything turned out well for you. From this site you both sound like great people and I know you were fair in your critiques. I love your writing and have hooked my friends too. Thank you.
Hmmm, stuffed Demon for my desk. Sounds like a cool thing to have. I’m going to have to see if I can catch one.