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C. writes
I just got an email from Amazon with a list of editors picks of 2012 ‘Romance’. I thought it was pretty funny that they included Gunmetal Magic on the list. I know it has some romance in it, but do you consider it a ‘Romance’ genre book? I didn’t really think Steels Edge was Romance either, although the cover makes it clear it wants to be. That’s it. Thanks for being a writer!
A classic romance is a book where relationship between people falling in love is the primary conflict of the book. If you were to remove the love plot line, the book would fall apart. Gunmetal Magic isn’t a classic romance; it’s an urban fantasy with a strong romantic element. If Andrea and Raphael didn’t get together, the book still could stand on the strength of the mystery plot line. That said, I really like what Neil Gaiman said in this post.
Once you’ve written a book, it belongs to everyone, and they are all allowed to have opinions, and the spectrum of opinions is the spectrum of humanity.
The post was about responding or rather not responding to criticism, but I want to quote it for a slightly different purpose. We read books for different reasons and our needs and opinions are as varied as we are. There are people who read our books primarily for paranormal mystery and action aspect. The romance is there and they don’t mind it, but it’s not the main draw. There are people who read our books primarily for romance. They are the ones who sit there impatiently flipping the pages for the next part with Kate and Curran. For them, a book works or fails on the basis of the romantic arc.
It so happened that Gunmetal Magic mostly worked for both types of readers, And that’s why I am not going to tell anyone what category to put it in. We wrote it, it’s out there, and now it’s yours. If you like it and call it romance, I am flattered. If you like it and call it fantasy, I am flattered. If you didn’t like it, I’m sorry it didn’t work for you.
This next question is somewhat related to the first, although it doesn’t seem so at first glance.
M. writes,
One of my favourite parts about reading all of your books is the level of detail paid to seemingly small things, especially to the fantasy and/or sf portions that doesn’t exist in our everyday world. For example, the colors and their meaning with an m-scanner, the ene-ribbon, and all the info in the creature guide. My question is, how do you decide how much is too much and when should you add more? Also where do you look to for inspiration to flush out these ideas?
It happens organically. The colors of m-scanner came from having the need for a simple diagnostic tool and we thought that colors would be an easy way to understand the results. Blue for human + red for undeath = purple vampire. The ene-ribbon was born because the Meli needed an elegant, but easily concealed weapon that could be used as a precision tool or as means of group murder.
The level of detail depends on manipulating the feelings of the theoretical reader. Detail creates atmosphere and mood. It also offers a bridge to the character.
If you read the passage about fractals in Gunmetal Magic, you will likely find it to be confusing. The amount of information is almost overwhelming. We did this because we wanted the reader to feel somewhat overwhelmed, just like Andrea did. Andrea wants simple answers to complicated questions.
If the scene is meant to demonstrate competence of the character as he or she are investigating a crime, the level of detail increases a little, because we want to convey to the reader that this is a competent person capable of obtaining information. If the scene calls for chaos, as in battle for example, the level of detail decreases. Andrea is a gun fanatic and her evaluation of a firearm will be different from Kate’s, whose expert opinion would likely amount to, “It’s a gun and it shoots many bullets very fast.”
I try not to give writing advice, because I’ve learned over the years that unless I have a long time to carefully explain exactly what I mean people take my advice and attempt to kill their writing with it. But here are a few common sense strategies that work for us.
1) Give the reader just enough information to understand the narrative. No more. I have eight books on Egyptian mythology. I’ve read big chunks from most of them. But the reader doesn’t need to know all that; the reader needs just enough to understand the story. If they develop an interest, they can continue the journey on their own.
2) Spending a lot of time and giving a lot of detail signals to the reader that this particular passage is important. A character finds a key at a murder scene. I spend two paragraphs describing the key in great detail. That means that sometime later the reader will expect the character to do something with this key.
3) If the stakes are dire, the detail is greater. If a character wakes up in a dark bedroom because he heard a noise, I will describe every single noise, scent and movement second by second, because I’m trying to drop the reader into that dark bedroom where something scary is rustling under the bed.
I find that with detail, as with humor, and with romance, timing and contrast are the key. For example, one of the funniest moments for everyone was Kate using Ghastek’s vampire as a hole puncher. It’s funny because it is preceded by a serious discussion and against that narrative the joke sings. If Kate and Ghastek traded witty jokes for two pages prior, the impact of the funny would be lost.
With science fiction and fantasy, contrast creates a short moment of the sense-of-wonder. Having an advanced artificial intelligence run your household is awesome, but its power and potential is best demonstrated when a character asks it how to make a stir-fry.
Just as well, with romance, if Curran showed up on every page, his impact would be diminished. We want the readers to have that moment of “Haha! I can’t believe he showed up! OMG, he did not just say that.”
In conclusion, I will leave you with this awesome example of contrast and timing.
Another great scene would be the baby baptism/killing spree at the end of The Godfather. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTkeqGLxoTM Baptism and Murder.
That scene from Fifth Element has always been my favorite part of the whole movie! What you’ve said about contrast and timing explains why very eloquently.
It seems that authors who are capable of writing with the depth and passion that you guys exhibit are both sociologists and cultural anthropologists with some psychology thrown in as well. You know your characters intimately, see their world through their eyes, and in general tell the history of a place unseen, for the rest of us to take great delight in. We may not be able to actually travel to these places you tell us about, but as long as we’re reading, it’s close enough
It took me awhile to come to it, but I eventually realized that books are what they mean to the reader, and it’s dumb for me to be a snob and dislike something because it’s a “kissing book” or whatever–in doing so I was missing a lot of good non-smooching writing by ignoring whole swaths of the book store.
So you’re right that however a reader wants to classify what they read doesn’t matter at all–as long as they’re reading and enjoying, and I’m reading and enjoying, the labels don’t matter at all.
But mostly I wanted to say thank you for posting that Fifth Element clip. It was just what I needed today.
I won’t lie…. I’ve been guilty of abusing labels for urban fantasy and romance. I still hate it when I get led to a romance book under the guise of urban fantasy. I’m middle-age, so I don’t know if that’s why I’ve held on longer than I should to my square box. I only determined late this year to free myself from vitriol and let people read whatever brings them joy. I’m struggling, but I’m determined to master this character thing.
Well, I can say that for me, I would get incredibly frustrated by unexpected romance elements–and I realized that’s what my primary issue was–it was unexpected. I discovered–to paraphrase the Princess Bride–maybe I don’t mind so much if I know ahead of time it’s a kissing book.
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There have been two occasions when I was shocked by an author not writing what I expected. I grabbed up their book without perusing the information on the cover and kept waiting for the SF or Mystery to kick in.
Since I read far more for the way an author puts their words together than genre, I was not disappointed. Except a bit in myself, for not looking closer at the specific book.
Or when it starts off one way, then goes another and I’m left asking “What happened?” That happened to me with a particular series that I am purposefully keeping anonymous. I’m not above reading the odd romance when the mood strikes me, or even one that goes into graphic detail, but I like knowing about that kind of direction ahead of time. With any kind of fantasy, I expect a little romance to crop up in there. It’s a form of human interaction, and you can’t really write about human interaction without it coming up.
PS – My all time favorite Sci-Fi movie is the Fifth Element. I renew my acquaintance with it at least three times a year in case something new develops in-between viewings.
Thanks for this post. I really appreciate the insight coming from the author. You have made me think about the books that I love and what it is about them that I find so engaging.
I also have to say thank you so much for the 5th Element clip. One of my all time favorite movies and most people think I am crazy when I say that!
Then I am crazy, too
Me too! Love that clip!
I’ve found that the books I wear out reading over time seem to have LIFE elements in them. Not just romance not just mystery or questing but life. Life with problems and complications rather than an easy solution. Granted I do enjoy a good “OH CRAP THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!” book but even then they have to have those elements of the human condition in them in enough detail to snag my imagination and keep it interested.
That said… I will now go dance the Diva Dance. Between that and the funky chicken I’m all set for the next wedding…
Thank you – point 2 just helped me fix a scene
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Thank you. Also, I love the clip. I can’t help but watch the movie every time it comes on tv, which is often. You are wonderful writers and we appreciate you.
I have found point two an important one. As a reader, if I get into a book and there is a lot of detail given about a specific item or place, I expect it to come back again in the book. If it doesn’t, I feel like it is missing! I actually noticed this in an otherwise really great SF book a few weeks ago, that I kept wondering about “X” and what ever happened with it?
Every time you write an answer to a technical question my respect for your craft grows more and more. Those of us who don’t write professionally are able to learn a great deal about the craft from your willingness to answer questions like these. Thank you…I gain more appreciation for your brilliant words daily. PS – I was also surprised when I saw that Gunmetal Magic was listed as Romance, but I could easily understand why this was the way the publisher/bookstores decided to list your book. Because of that, and other “odd” listings for books I love, I’ve learned to always do searches on the author(s) name(s) and/or book titles.
“They are the ones who sit there impatiently flipping the pages for the next part with Kate and Curran”
Raises hand, that would be me; however, I still enjoy the UF aspects. I know you can’t please everyone, but the love story and what people do for those they love is are what I find most satisfying. The mysteries, intrigues, epic battles, and the Big Bad’s in a secondary position.
I love that scene in Fifth Element. The points you made are great. I can definitely use them.
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Awesome film
One of my favorite parts of one of my favorite movies. It just never gets old for me. Inva Mula does an awesome job in her singing role as the Diva.
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I loved that movie so much I bought the soundtrack.
Also a great example about contrast.
The clip from the Fifth Element is my absolute favorite scene from the movie. For myself, I get all nerdy with your books because of the little nods you have towards stuff I love, for example in Magic Bleeds the Princess Bride nods or in Steel’s Edge the Firefly nod (I’m not sure if the nod is in the book as I haven’t read it yet, but it was in a snippet you provided). Plus, the way you world-build and the use of mythology in your books… makes me drool.
It is a beautiful example, not to mention one of my favorite scenes from The Fifth Element!
Love it!!
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I find myself in excellent company with my passionate love of The 5th Element in general and of the Diva Plavalaguna in particular, Cheers, all!
I’ve always considered the books I read to be ‘mine’ as I know that my take of anything is unlike anyone else’s POV, therefore I classify my tastes to be more broad spectrum than in any one genre. I am hell on bookstore clerks, lol.
My fondness for Kate Daniels books has only wreaked havoc on my iPad so far and any humans in my vicinity are safe since I discovered eBooks! Thank you so much for all of yours, and for your “pandering” to us rabid, avid fans!
I know exactly what you’re saying. Although, I can never ever bring myself to be disappointed when Curran is on the page
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ooooh! I love the 5th Element and I’m all about the romance
As usual, some thoughtful and unique writing advice. Always appreciated when you put the time into sharing your ideas on technique. Thanks!
I totally read GMM for the romance. The rest was icing on the cake, but if Andrea and Raphael hadn’t ended up together, I would have curled into a ball and cried. So for me, that totally makes it a romance.
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I don’t see why it has to be either fantasy or romance. Pretty much all of your books have enough romance to be in the romance books club I read along with. I don’t think the romance elements are going to keep any fantasy readers away.
I read Gun Metal Magic hoping Raphael would be out of there. I really found the first scene with him in the book unforgivable.
I’ll admit I enjoy the romance, but I’m all about the action and story line. I don’t have the patience for romance-only stories, but I can appreciate that they are just the thing for many people. I once heard Lois McMaster Bujold say that when she wrote “The Sharing Knife” series what she was trying to do was create a story where the romance and action were 50/50 without a particular emphasis on one over the other.
Wow. You guys like 5th Element, one of my favorite movies. You guys like manga/anime (i.e. Inu Yasha), and you guys (or Gordon) does martial arts. Like moi. And I love all your books. I’m seeing a lot of parallels here. Even though I believe we have very different backgrounds and geographical locations. But it would have been great to have met! So I’ll just add myself to your long list of admirers (of the non-fanatical variety).
Thank you for sharing with us!
I read your books because I like the romance in there. And the mystery. But most of all I like the character development. I love it, that your books are not only romance or only mystery or urban fantasy. They have many layers. Kate is the best example. She kicks asses but she still saved her humanity. She is somewhat vulnerable and that keeps her from being a bitch. I don’t like many books with strong heroines because many are one dimensional, sometimes acting like teenage girls who wants to play with the big boys. They try to be real hard asses and overachieve. You can’t feel with them.
Your characters, even the minor ones, are all carefully drawn. I love that. I love how they struggle, how they try to save their loved ones, not by pushing them away but by working hard to eliminate the dangers around them. And that’s an important contrast to. Being strong, being able to protect without losing your humanity and the ability to feel and to respect the feeling of others.
Your blog brought to mind an interview I had read about one of the most iconic movies ever made in India. The movie is “Sholay” (1975) and it is loosely based on Akira Kurosawa’s “Seven Samurai”. What the director had said was almost exactly what you have said. The 2nd half of this movie is incredibly tense, on razor’s edge and action-packed, so an advisor recommended some lighthearted moments to contrast the action and dramatic climactic moments. Thus was created one of the most seductive, dangerous and memorable songs I’ve ever heard ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ9VDYtPVh8 ).
These blogs of what goes into writing a novel or making a movie are fascinating to a lay person like me… Thanks for the “behind the scenes” look.
“1) Give the reader just enough information to understand the narrative. No more. ”
Some years back, people were advised to have their resumes include a phrase about “Communicating Well”. I don’t. I’ve gradually realized that I either believe the person I’m trying to communicate with is more on the same page with me than is true and I don’t say enough, or I bury them with details and lose them that way.
I’m slowly trying to learn to do what you two do so well.
I love your books because there is a romance element. I am not sure I would’ve continued if there wasn’t one. So thank you for thinking of both genres.
Ditto to what everyone said above…and thank you for making this dark, rainy Tuesday a little brighter.
I’m a reader, not a writer. I had no idea the amount of thought that goes into writing even a smallest scene until I started reading your blog. I love action/adventure books with some romance thrown in. So, I guess I like having both worlds in the books I read. I have to say that whatever your doing works amazingly. Don’t let everyone’s opinion get you down. Remember that for every negative/whiny comment you hear, you have 100 fans that love what your doing, but don’t say anything.
Selma Hayek going vampire in From Dusk ’till Dawn is great contrast scene also.
I read a lot and over the years I learned not to pay much attention to categorization. Lines between genres are blurred; lines between YA, adult or “new adult” books are blurred.
And then, even if it’s clear what genre some book belong, I don’t want to restrict myself. I love urban fantasy and action parts, but Kate/Curran scene are nothing but awesome also. So why wouldn’t I read UF if there is romance and vice versa? I bought GMM for my regency-loving mother and her lunch burned because she was engrossed in story. Dishes were nightmare, but she loved the book.
My circuitous path to UF began with a college major in British literature (can you say “The Tempest”, “The Fairie Queen”, and “The Lord of the Rings”?) followed by a foray into Faulkner, Fitzgerald, and Hemingway. My postgraduate school days were spent reading all the proper British mysteries starting with Doyle and followed by Marsh and Christie, which was superceded by immersion in Herman Wouk, Allen Drury, and the like, finally concluding with a brief dive into adventure/action novels by Fleming, E.S. Forester, Sabatini, and Burroughs.
All this is to say that, based on nearly 50 years of reading everything that crosed my path, the points you made about the craft of writing and reading being innately subjective are spot on. Your works have the depth needed to stand the test of time precisely becuase they don’t always fit neatly into a specific category. Thank you for all you do to make avid readers like me eagerly await the next release!
It’s surprising what people classify as romance. A while ago, I had trouble finding a fantasy/sci-fi book at a local bookstore. It turns out they’d shelved it in the romance section. I don’t recall any kissing in the book , and the cover featured a semi-decomposed hand. Never got an answer from the clerk what was so romantic about it.
I read for neither of those reasons, I’m all about the politics and the non-romantic interpersonal relationships.
A book with no action of either kind would be great afaic (not ever happening, but I can dream).
You are on a best romance of the year list :O!
http://www.npr.org/2012/12/18/166899442/romantic-reads-from-shakespeare-to-steampunk-heavy-on-the-steam
I always thought of that scene when I read the scene where Crest takes Kate to see the lady sing who has ice dancing. It’s cool to see that wasn’t completely random!